What’s up with Java naming (still)?
September 11, 2008
So, I have an XP image that I wanted to use Eclipse on. I grab Eclipse (85 meg download version) and it tells me that it needs a JRE or a JDK. That’s slightly better than error messages I remember before, but I’ll still ask now - “WHAT THE HELL IS A JDK?”. It takes me to some Sun download site which asks what platform and language I want (can’t it guess that from the browser HTTP header info and at least prefill out the dropdown boxes?!). It then starts to download a 105 meg file that specifically has “nojdk” in the filename. What the hell is a JDK?
Sun doesn’t offer JDKs. They have “Java EE SDK” files. Perhaps just a little flag on Sun’s site that says “if you’re being told you need a JDK, you really need XXXX” and tell me what I need. Honestly, Sun/Java has some of the worst developer setup experiences I’ve ever had (and I’ve had many). Perhaps no one complains cause everyone’s already set up and there’s no new people coming in to this world? Who knows???
So, let’s try to download a “JRE” - the other option it says I could get away with. Where from? Java.com? No mention of a JRE there. When you download from the big blue button there’s something about JXPINSTALL.EXE being run. OK… what’s that? And why isn’t it labelled JRE? Try “java.sun.com” - which is aimed at developers. Popular downloads area lists “java ee, java se, java me (that’s ‘popular”?!) and a few others, none of which remotely resemble “JRE”. Three little letters that are a supposed core of Java, yet they’re nowhere to be found on either major Java site.
For the record, the “JXPINSTALL.EXE” file is now eventually installing a “Java Runtime Environment” and Eclipse now seems like it’ll run. What a PITA.
I’m on the record (again?) as saying that this is a wholly crappy experience. Getting a Java environment set up ranks up there with dealing with Gentoo build flags.
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September 11th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
While I agree that Sun’s Java naming scheme is nothing short of ridicilous, I still have one question for you: How can it the that you’re even considering Eclipse if you don’t know what a JDK is? (or were you ironic and I didn’t get it?)
September 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
The bigger question is “why doesn’t Sun know what a JDK is?”
September 11th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
More to the point, I wasn’t installing Eclipse to do Java work. I was installing it as the base app for FlexBuilder. It’s also the base system for PHP IDEs (PDT and Zend Studio). But again, “JDK” is a term that might be popular in the Java community, but it’s not *anywhere* on Sun’s “download” page. Visit http://developers.sun.com/downloads/ then search on the page for JDK or JRE. They don’t exist. Why not? I don’t care what they call things, I just want everyone to use the same damn terms.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I can feel your pain
JDK is an older abbreviation standing for Java Development Kit. Since then, Java became the family name for many development kits like Java standard edition development kit(Java SE SDK), Java enterprise edition development kit(Java EE SDK) etc.
Some older software/platforms still use the old abbreviation.
JRE is the runtime needed to run the applications written in Java, it is not a developer resource, so developers.java.com is not really its place. When someone says “Install Java” it means JRE to normal users and SDK to developers. Java.com highlights Java(JRE) download option pretty prominently.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Thanks for the response.
I “get it” in a “yeah, i’ve hit this before sense” but am still amazed that there’s still such an attitude of “whatever” amongst Java apps out there (eclipse came to mind today, I’ve seen it in others).
Yes, java.com prominently guides you to downloading a JRE. However, they don’t *label* it “JRE” anywhere on that site, probably fearing that TLAs would freak people out.
Sorry, no. On a download page on java.com I am now taken to a page that has a the bottom (in grey on white text)
“Java software for your computer, or the Java Runtime Environment, is also referred to as the Java Runtime, Runtime Environment, Runtime, JRE, Java Virtual Machine, Virtual Machine, Java VM, JVM, VM, or Java download.”
This doesn’t seem to be the same DL page I hit earlier today. OH - *now* I’m hitting it via Linux - earlier I hit it from Windows. Not sure if that’s really the difference, but it might be.
The term “JDK” should be banished from all references in software that ever gets updated (netbeans, if you have it, and eclipse, definitely), and every software should reference “Java SDK” because that’s how it’s referred to on Sun’s site. *OR* (easier to do) - Sun should indicate that “JDK” is another term for “Java SDK”.
If Apple referred to something as “foo” in an application, and “bar” on their website, people would go nuts bitching about it, and it’d get fixed. Likely nothing so egregious would last very long in the Apple world anyway, as they seem to care about these sorts of experiential matters. For some reason people seem to accept this sort of crap from Sun, IBM and other big vendors.